CC block, data updating

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mchd17
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CC block, data updating

Post by mchd17 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:00 pm

I am using the Current Conditions block, using meteobridge to update at 5 seconds. Just curious to why not all data updates on 5 seconds. Sometimes my wind gust is lower than wind speed and wind speed doesn't change very often. Is this normal?

http://www.mckinneyfarm.com/template/

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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by Jachym » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:12 pm

The wind average/gust is tricky, it is something that is determined by your station. Each manufacturer calculates this differently. Theoretically the gust should be current value, average an average and current value can be lower than average. MT just shows whatever is sent to it, it is not calculating this.
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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by mchd17 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:38 pm

Thanks for the quick response ;)

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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by mchd17 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:03 am

I sort of understand what you mean.

I am a newbie on weather stations, so be patient :D

Take WeatherUnderground for example......they show Wind and Wind Gust. Wind Gust is the same or higher than Wind. MT can show Wind (doesn't refresh alot, I have 10 second update) but Wind Gust changes and can be lower than Wind value. Confusing to me. Shouldn't they both update at 10 seconds? If Wind is an average, what is the time frame of that average? Just trying to learn ;)

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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by Jachym » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:09 am

Hi,
theoretically yes, but again, MT only shows what your station is sending (or the software you use), so this could be something to discuss, but not with me, but the developer of your station/software :-)
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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by mchd17 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:49 am

Look at this........

I have another weather station template installed on my host, I really hope you don't mind me sharing that link here ;) . It shows wind speed and gust. They both refresh same time. Gust is always higher than wind speed.

http://mckinneyfarm.com/pws/

That template is showing the data sent to it from my meteobridge just like MT, the same data. But MT is not showing data like that template. Curious if it's in how MT reads that data. :D I am not trying to be a pain, just would like accurite info shown.

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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by mchd17 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:20 pm

And here is the Saratoga template

http://mckinneyfarm.com/weather/wxindex.php

This shows the exact wind readings as MT. So it must be how the meteobridge sends its data. I am not by my meteobridge, but if I remember right.....MT and saratoga use the ftp and http. While WU and the first template I posted use the API. Hmmmmm.....
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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by dmgould » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:24 pm

I have been researching this just for fun and came to the same conclusion you just did. It seems to have something to do with the way the Meteobridge reports a wind gust. I also discovered there is no real standard to the way a wind gust is defined. Generally speaking, it's not even a gust unless it's at least 16 knots, exceeds the lowest wind speed recorded in the prior 10 minutes by 10 knots, and lasts no longer than 20 seconds. I also see different software providers define it in different ways. Some use a prior 2 minute interval average and define a gust as anything above that average. My Meteobridge does exactly what yours does in MT. It often shows a gust lower than the wind speed, but that is usually just at very low wind speeds. It would be interesting to pose the question to Boris (Meteobridge) for his take.
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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by Jachym » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:33 pm

The thing is, Meteobridge has a built-in function to send data to MT, the question is what is that function actually calculating. So it is as I said - the template shows whatever it receives, but it doesnt mean Meteobridge is sending the exact thing
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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by dmgould » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:05 pm

Interesting observation. Checking my actual MT database at 5 minute intervals the wind and wind gust data tracks correctly. I don't see anywhere that a gust was less than the wind speed. My 'live' readings are being sent every 30 seconds. In that short interval the Meteobridge is sending the average wind "avgwind' over 2 minutes as the wind speed, and the gust is being sent from 'wind' over a shorter interval than 2 minutes. As a result the gust is sometimes less than the wind speed. In these snips the gust is higher than the wind speed, but it shows where the Meteobridge live data ended up in the block at this interval.
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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by mchd17 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:26 am

I am using the interactiveGraph block. Wind and Wind Gusts look very good at the 5 minute database entries. I might head over to the meteobridge forums and ask. I see it's been brought up over there before. That sucks, i really like the wind speed updates at WU and that other template i am running. I just don't like how live data is being sent to Meteotemplate.
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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by andyk1 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:43 pm

Hello!

Having read through most of these post I looked at your site and it was refreshing at 29 to 32 sec intervals not the 5 you said you had set. That being said I also had a 5 sec refresh set but would update at 7 to sometimes as long as 15 sec. I see your wind and wind gusts keeping up... I am guessing but one thing I noticed on my MT was that sometimes it would be 2-3 readings behind compared to Wundergrounds rapidfire. https://www.wunderground.com/swf/Rapid_ ... =KOKNICOM2 if you don't know what I mean. Just change my KOKNICOM2 to your wunderground station number. The problem I am having is my CC stops refreshing completely and even with a browser refresh or even close and reopen it would not refresh at times for 5-10 min then just start up again. I've been chasing this problem for near a month now.

Andy

Update 3-22-2018
I made an error in my meteobridge settings to refresh meteotemplate every 5 seconds but upon exiting meteobridge the changes did not stick because I had to many I.E 11 windows on the same url at different times not realizing I had other i.e. open @ the same time. Upon exiting the different windows undid my changes because I never saved them in the extra open windows. Ya I know... dumb me... :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: Even thou... I set a 5 sec refresh in MB. There is more than like a lag at the host server to your computer your viewing on unless your are running your own home server. My lag is 7 to sometimes 15 seconds as i mentioned in another post I think.
Last edited by andyk1 on Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by Dehatter » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:53 pm

Wind is generally an average over the refrseh rate while gust is generally the maximum value of the refresh rate.

That being said, when refreshing at such quick intervals, you do not get true readings. The data is accepted at what ever rate you send it, but if you increase your refresh rate in the block, you will actually get a better idea of what is happening.

MB sends data to the template API every 10 secs for me, but CC block only refreshes every 30 secs. The 3 sets of collected data is not lost but used to create the wind and gust speed over the 30 sec period. Realize that your station is doing the very same thing over its refresh rate, as is the MB device, I think 5 secs is too fast to use the data properly.

Your w34 template as Andy said refreshes every 20 secs. The timer is actually set for 16 seconds, but the data/image processing and communications link is taking up the remaining time. Please realize that the data between refreshes is not lost - it is used. Using longer refresh rates allow data to be collected over a longer period time and certain anomalies of mathematics to be worked out and self corrected. As you approach 'real time' the difference between wind speed and wind gust goes away because there would be no such thing as a gust. It is just wind speed in real time. This makes it difficult for any program to handle as gust is the maximum value over a defined span of time, yet the span of time you want to use is approaching zero.

I hope this make some sense. lol. I have it figured out in my own head, Just not sure I am expressing it properly.

Tom
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Re: CC block, data updating

Post by andyk1 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:47 pm

Hello Sir, I had the same problem wondering why it also was not updating and not having read through all the comments I suggest you go to your meteobridge and insure you in fact did set it up for a 5 sec send. I had 3-4 windows open at the same time in I.E 11 and after making changes in one window I did not close them all and when I did it undid my meteobrige changes to the last windows 10. The same happen to me while editing setup. Of course closing that window only to have others open at the same time and undoing my changes there. Drove me nuts till I figured it out.

Upate-1: 3-22-2018

And what Tom basically said above is dead on. Depending on your weather array even a Davis Pro2 does not send all of it's readings at the advertised rate. I have an Ambient Weather WS-2902 that sends wind/gust readings at 5-10 second intervals. Understanding that temp, hum, percip Solar and UV if you have that does not send but maybe once ever 45 or more seconds. A WS-0900 sends all reads at 60 sec intervals of all readings. Correct me if I'm wrong. So a send from your MB every 5 seconds really is not needed. I myself like to at least see the wind speed and gust update rapidly and knowing temp and other reading do not change that rapidly. A 30-45 sec send makes more sense as the host server db still takes your average over 5 min hi/low/avg anyway. MT does all the math for you.

Update-2: 3-22-2018

I stand corrected:.. Ambient (WS-0900)

48 second real-time updates on the ObserverIP and the internet.
Wind Speed Calculation: Average wind speed in 48 second update period
Wind Gust Calculation: Peak wind speed 48 second update period
Real-time Streaming Updates (rapid fire flash view) >-- No mention of other parameters but assuming 48 sec. also.
more info: https://www.ambientweather.com/amws0900ip.html
credits to: www.ambientweather.com

So a 5 sec data send would not make sense in this case.

Andy
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